Season 2, Episode 9: JA Europe: Brace Yourself for the Youthquake

Salvatore Nigro (00:01): Closing our eyes and imagining the future in 2050, how is it going to be in 2050? And I'm particularly excited about that just by imagining it. So, how excited I will be when, in July, we are putting the first tone of that future of 2050 by bringing together 1 million young people across Europe, to participate in the different activities, to compete for the best startup of the year, to compete for the best mini company of the year. A new generation is born at this Gen-E.

Roberta Cucchiaro (00:44): I love it. Looking forward to this.

Maalfrid Brath (00:45): I love it too. It's so great to hear you, Salvatore.

Intro (00:52): The future of work and the future for workers is changing. From new technologies and talent strategies to the management of tomorrow's workforce. Tap in to ManpowerGroup Talent Solutions' 60 years of expertise and join us for the Transform Talent podcast, your guide to talent market trends, new technologies and winning talent solutions.

Roberta Cucchiaro (01:23): Hi, and welcome to the ninth episode of the Transform Talent podcast. This is Roberta Cucchiaro…

Dominika Gałusa (01:29): …and Dominika Galusa. Today we're going to talk about Junior Achievement Europe and how it helps young people kick off their careers. Junior Achievement Europe is Europe's largest provider of education programs for entrepreneurship, work readiness and financial literacy, creating pathways for employability, job creation and financial success.

Roberta Cucchiaro (01:51): And to give you some numbers, last school year, the Junior Achievement network in Europe reached almost 4 million young people across 40 countries with the support of nearly 100,000 business volunteers and over 140,000 teachers and educators. And ManpowerGroup is a proud partner of Junior Achievement and what unites us is the passion for sustainable employment, teaching and inspiring students worldwide, how to succeed in the workplace and helping them build the soft skills they really need.

Dominika Gałusa (02:23): Because we must remember that helping young people to build the skills they'll need to succeed in the workplace doesn't just work for them, it works for employers too. And in today's episode, we're joined by Salvatore Nigro, Chief Executive Officer of Junior Achievement Europe, Maalfrid Brath, Regional Managing Director, Nordics and Baltics of ManpowerGroup, and Josephine Daly Tempelaar, Co-Founder of Rawstraw, and Rawstraw produces 100% natural and environmental friendly straws made of Swedish rye and was the 2019 winner of ManpowerGroup Ready for Work Award and the Junior Achievement Europe company of the Year Competition. So welcome to the podcast, I'm really happy to have you here with us. Since we are talking about young people kicking off their careers. What was your first job and what has it taught you?

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (03:19): That's hard to remember like the absolute first job. I think it was selling Swedish strawberries outside the local supermarkets for me.

Salvatore Nigro (03:31): Well, mine was public relations for the entertainment business. It looks very big and stuff. In reality, I was the guy giving out brochures to invite young people to come to a disco club. And in return I was getting free access to a Sunday afternoon sessions. What I learned about it was mainly to hear people, because also as a part of the selling and of the public relations is not only what you give out there, but to understand the needs of the people that you are in front of you.

Maalfrid Brath (04:05): And my first experience, I was only 13 years old actually, when I went to every second Saturday and during the holidays to the local bakery where I grew up. First, I was in there early in the mornings when there were wheat buns and helped the baker, and afterwards I was selling in the bakery store. And I think what I've really learned during that period when I was so young was how important is to really take care of your customers and that smile, and then doing that extra service, how much that was appreciated. So it was a good lesson to learn and I look back to that first period with a lot of fun to be honest.

Dominika Gałusa (04:42): Yeah, I mean, for me, I used to be a cleaner. I used to clean offices. So I learned, for me the biggest lesson was the respect and communication as well. So, Roberta, over to you.

Roberta Cucchiaro (04:54): So, well, we start with a question to Salvatore actually. So the initiatives and core programs of Junior Achievement Europe work at all levels I've seen, from primary school to universities and target teachers, students as well as political bodies, such as the European Commission. So what are the initiatives you are most proud of at the Junior Achievement Europe?

Salvatore Nigro (05:16): Well, we have various initiatives, but the most important is definitely how do we transform our educational programs to also provide tangible economic opportunities to young people and we're very proud to partner with ManpowerGroup on many of those. Because we are imagining the jobs of the future, we are imagining what are the skills that are out there and now we can really close the gap between the educational system and the world of work. Now, as you can imagine, before the pandemic, everybody was talking about the skills gap.

Now what I talk, it's really a youthquake. I mean, what is going to be the world after the pandemic? What are going to be the skills that out there? And we see the non-cognitive skills, transferable skills are becoming more and more important together with the digital skills. So we are transforming an organization that is hundred years old, but is already projected into the future to serve the young people. And as you rightly say, over 4 million young people go through our programs every year across Europe.

Roberta Cucchiaro (06:24): And I heard that you joined as CEO of Junior Achievement Europe just as the pandemic was hitting Europe, without even being able to meet your new colleagues face to face, you had to switch two major annual competitions to virtual events, which is the Junior Achievement Europe Company of the Year Competition and the Junior Achievement Enterprise Challenge. So how did that go?

Salvatore Nigro (06:46): I always like it easy things to do, right? So you change your job in the middle of a pandemic. You change also geographical regions, because I started my career working in Sub-Saharan Africa, then in US, in the Middle East and North Africa always for workforce development and youth employment. And then all of the sudden I decided, okay, now it's time to go back to Europe, because I'm a proud father of two, so I was looking now at the future of my own kids and the future of the generation of Europeans. And all of the sudden the pandemic exploded. So I'm not sure if my wife was more worried to me to go to the supermarket this year for COVID or last year when I was in conflict zone across the Middle East and North Africa. The perception of risk has significantly changed.

You rightly said, agenda in our organization that all of a sudden had to switch, not only from the normal in-person working relations that we can have and build with your colleagues, but also when you serve 4 million young people you have additional responsibilities. How can you make that digital jump? And not all the 40 countries where we are were operating were ready to do it. So we needed to make sure that no one was left behind by significantly putting investments into digital transformation. Some of those investments, as you say, were the Company of the Year Competitions and the European Enterprise Challenge of last year. Over 350,000 young people last year had competed for the best mini company. And then the pandemic came. So those young people who have invested months and months in creating their mini companies, in generating business ideas… all of the sudden they saw their schools closed, shifting into studying remotely from home and all the work that they have done since September until March last year could have disappeared. But we had made them a promise.

We will put our investment to transform what, in the previous year, was an event in an hotel conference room of 200 people, to make it something really Europeans where they could share their stories. And that's what we did. And over 350,000 people watched it, the different ideas presented by the young people, but at the same time, they also had the opportunity to witness the support of an institution, including the UN Secretary General, Antonio Gutierrez, who was with us at the event. Three European commissioners were with us at the events. So we brought, there was a collective challenge and we answer it with the collective solution.

Roberta Cucchiaro (09:44): That's beautiful and it makes me think that all of the challenges that we faced and, you know, the ability to switch to digital and virtual events, your reach actually becomes… widens because you can reach anyone in the world. It doesn't matter where they are, right? And they can attend. They can listen in. So I think that's a very nice lesson.

Salvatore Nigro (10:01): The technology is always there. The issue is the cultural shift that we need to make into our organization, into our partners. And I have to admit that ManpowerGroup has been one of the partners in the middle of the crisis the last year everybody had, that we could call up and say, of course, it's actually an innovation, it's actually something that we want to do as proud partner of the Company of the Year Competitions, and have worked with us in the realization and implementation of these event. So as I say, it's collective, and it's nice to see that you have partners that you can trust.

Dominika Gałusa (10:40): So talking about this partnership, I'd like to hear more about ManpowerGroup's shared purpose, and it is very, very impressive and it makes me proud that Junior Achievement and ManpowerGroup's partnership has been ongoing for decades. So Maalfrid, can you tell us the story behind this long lasting relationship and what are the values that link Junior Achievement and ManpowerGroup?

Maalfrid Brath (11:01): Well, first of all, let me say that I'm really proud of that relationship myself to be honest, and, you know, Junior Achievement's mission is to prepare young people to succeed and that aligns with a key pillar of our sustainability plan, getting young people ready for work. That's extremely important for us. We were founded back in 1948 as a company, the saying that we're doing well by doing good. And we believe that sustainable employment has the power to change the world.

And we really believe in this purpose, and it is therefore vital for us to contribute to society and we do it in many ways. And, for example, getting youth work ready and contribute to their future carriers is perhaps one of the most meaningful things we can do. So this engagement is core to both of our values and business too. Today's young people will soon be skilled workers or healthcare professionals or engineers and more on, and with a growing skill shortage, it's always gives meaning from a business perspective for us to involve in Junior Achievement. So I think that's summarize a little bit of what I think around that, Dominika.

Dominika Gałusa (12:15): Yeah, that sounds, again, impressive. And you mentioned Junior Achievement's mission, and I just would like to quote it here, because I think it's important to state what Junior Achievement is standing for, so, "We aim to inspire and prepare young people to succeed in the global economy." So having this in mind and all the work you've been doing, why do you think it's important to support Junior Achievement Europe or the local organizations at the country level?

Maalfrid Brath (12:45): I'm so lucky that I've been leading the board for Junior Achievement in Norway for a very long time and I've been in the board for 11 years now. Then I have the opportunity to take part also in the national championships, and also the European championship I've been participating in. I get so energized and so full of belief in the future every time I can speak to those participants in those championships. I think the education the students get from participating in one of the Junior Achievement programs is so important for a lot of reasons, because participating in a Junior Achievement programs give to participants a stage where they can shine and show other sides of themselves than the traditional can do in the classroom. And then Junior Achievement is, for instance, a perfect place for sales talents. Traditionally, there are no place for sales talents in the ordinary school, but in the JA program, they are at stage where they can shine and they have to sell the company.

And then another good thing is participating in the Junior Achievement program gives an intuitive and more practical way of learning. And a lot of students like the idea of learning through practical work. And when I participate in some of these championships, I've really met parents as well and they come over and tell me stories about their son or daughter that through the program, they were engaged and motivated to study again and they learned math and writing and other topics the hard way, so to say. So, it's been so fun to see these parents smiling and very happy for those students and at the same time, see the students that are so engaged.

Dominika Gałusa (14:28): And we'll hear more about it from Josephine later on. But first I just wanted to ask Salvatore how to engage the private sector, policy makers and academia.

Salvatore Nigro (14:39): Part of the work of Junior Achievement in Europe is definitely to get their own operation on the ground when our member countries are doing a fantastic job, despite all the challenges. But another one is how to influence decision-making. We said that COVID was a global challenge and needed a global response. We needed the collective response. So this youthquake now that will come out of the pandemic, we require a significant and coordinated effort of both private sector and public sector. This is why we are heavily engaged at, to give you an example in Europe, in the creation of European education space, where, you know, we'll bring all of this knowledge together with the Commissioner Mariya Gabriel, but also for those countries who are not part of the EU, our national member states are working very closely with the Ministry of Education.

There is a recognition that if until now we needed to reduce the skills gap, now we also need to reduce the differences that exist among different stakeholders and we need to bring them together. This is part of our role. Junior Achievement as an operational role, definitely, but it's also a great advocate because it has the force of over 4 million young people every year. It has the force of various ministers of education who have actually embedded our programs inside their national curriculum. It has the force of the fact the leading companies, like ManpowerGroup, have a significant interest in the future of the next generations, because this is the citizens who are going to support the economy. So together, I think we're definitely going to be better. And we're doing pretty good on that. I am, I'm very proud of leading an organization which is on the forefront of, in answering to this challenge.

Roberta Cucchiaro (16:51): And, while talking about this, I want to put Josephine a bit on the spotlight here, because, well, you are an inspiration to all young entrepreneurs. You founded Rawstraw, which was the 2019 winner of the ManpowerGroup Ready for Work Award, which is one of the eight signature awards offered to the Junior Achievement Europe Company of the Year Competition finalists. And it is awarded to the students teams that best demonstrate work readiness, skills, such as collaboration, leadership, learnability, learnability meaning the desire and the ability to continually learn and develop new skills. So, Josephine, what's the story behind Rawstraw?

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (17:32): Well, initially Rawstraw started out as a school project that me and my fellow students founded. And that was, I think, back in 2018, actually, that that started. So we joined this national JA program which we have in Sweden and wanted to try this entrepreneurship program which we had heard of. And we actually studied social science back then, so it wasn't included in our program, but we chose to add it on, and quite quickly realized that we wanted to develop a business idea which obviously had sustainability as, you know, a key in the idea, and we quickly came to realize that the single use plastics were an up-and-coming discussion topic and somehow managed to narrow it down to straws, because we thought that we could bake straws that were supposed to be a hundred percent edible and that you could just throw, you know, or eat up after use.

So we went home to our kitchens and tried to mix different types of flours with jell-o and, you know, different edibles. And we realized quite soon that, you know, we probably had to take some extra courses in chemistry in order to make that happen. And, you know, we thought that we actually had entered the end of the journey already there in the beginning, because we couldn't really come any further. And then our friend, actually, her mother tongue is Dutch, her mother came home and asked us “what on earth are you doing in my kitchen?” And she answered in German; “Oh, we're making straws.” And the German word for drinking straws is Strohhalm, directly translated into English that means, hay straw. This became the turning point for the idea behind Rawstraw.

And soon, you know, we went on to Google to Google why on earth the name was hay straw. And we found out that before the manufacturing of paper straws and plastic straws started, actually the original idea drinking straws was from just taking grains on the field, breaking it and using the real hay straws as this drinking straw. So when we, I think we, you know, without even knowing it, turned an old idea into something new again.

Roberta Cucchiaro (19:53): That's amazing.

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (19:54): Yeah.

Roberta Cucchiaro (19:55): That's amazing. And, and I'm just thinking, and I don't know, maybe Salvatore, you know, because in Italian we say cannuccia which is-

Salvatore Nigro (20:02): Cannucce

Roberta Cucchiaro (20:03): ... the canna is from sugar cane, so maybe there is a connection there as well.

Salvatore Nigro (20:06): It might come from there.

Roberta Cucchiaro (20:06): Yeah.

Salvatore Nigro (20:07): Indeed.

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (20:09): Definitely, definitely. And there's so many, like, different types of straws, you said there's sugar cane that you could use for straws. There's bamboo and it's interesting to see how the word has origined, you know, in different countries from some type of straw. So that's actually where the Rawstraw idea did start, even though it wasn't initially what we had thought it would be come. And after that, we contacted tons of Swedish farmers to see if we could get a hold of this straw. It turned out to be quite successful and a year later we ended up in Lille competing for the European JA Competition Company of the Year.

Dominika Gałusa (20:48): That's impressive and, well, and you won and here you are on our podcast.

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (20:52): Exactly.

Dominika Gałusa (20:53): And as the winner of the Ready for Work Award, winners also take part in Talent Solutions' one year mentoring program. And I know this year we also introduced RightCoach. So, Maalfrid, how was the program structured and what can we learn from it? Can we apply the same model to, for example, mentoring employees?

Maalfrid Brath (21:15): First of all, I just want to say, Josephine, it's amazing to hear your stories. I get so energized when I hear you, so it's so good to hear. Now, the Ready for Work Award is designed to help young talent to become more self-aware of their individual potential, as well as the power of the team. And we offer a joint learnability journey for one year to explore motivation, dive into personal behavior, gain self and team insights, nourish entrepreneurial mindset, and focus on improvement areas like help us tracking learning skills. And it's delivered through a one-year mentoring program from Talent Solutions. And, yes, more employees should really consider offering mentoring to their employees in a more and more complex work life that we already had spoken about with the rapid changing skills needs.

Many people need to help to figure out what the next step is and reflect more of their work life and finding the right work-life balance as well. And I think having a mentor and really make sure you understand what's happening around the skills all the time, it's why I think a mentor could be to help for very many employees, not only for those that's won the competition, but real intricate life experience. I think that will be helpful for very many employees.

Dominika Gałusa (22:37): Yes. That's true.

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (22:38): Yeah, and I definitely agree with what you said there, because that kind of summarize my experience with the mentorship award that we received after competing in Lille. And as you said, we got a coach, received a coach from ManpowerGroup, which we worked continuously with during the year. And he was always there for us, backed us up and also taught us a lot about which skills we already had, what we could work on and how to develop those skills into something more. And it was super interesting, because also being so young, I think you easily tend to forget to, like, reflect over the skills that you already have and like, what can you do with those? So it was a super interesting and very valuable experience for us. And we are very happy that, maybe we didn't win the competition in Lille, but we definitely won one of the most valuable awards there to get.

Maalfrid Brath (23:31): That's really good to hear, Josephine.

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (23:31): Yes.

Roberta Cucchiaro (23:35): It's very inspiring and I'm sure, Salvatore, you must be very proud to hear such stories that coming out from Junior Achievement. And I also heard that a new generation is born, which is Gen-E, this generation of Europeans who believe in education, entrepreneurship and employment, and Junior Achievement Europe will be hosting the largest European Entrepreneurship Festival in July 2021. So how do you come up with this idea and what can we expect?

Salvatore Nigro (24:04): A big surprise and big secret. Uh, jokes apart, well, this podcast. Actually resume it… Gen-E. So we were inspired by Josephine, witnessing how she and Rawstraw came up with the idea, their positiveness, the imagining it. Same time we get inspired or personal, I did get very much inspired by Maalfrid. She was in the jury at the national level, at the European level, she's there to support those young people. So after COVID we said, what is this differentiation between Gen Z and Gen Y, millennials that we serve, but also baby boomers and Gen X, for instance, and I'm part of it. And this is really in the DNA of JA, we are bringing together different partners with the youth, but we are also bringing together different generations. And this is Gen-E, this is the generation of Europeans who believe in the importance of education, of employment, of entrepreneurship.

So we're bringing all of them together as we are rendering the future. We're closing our eyes and imagining the future in 2050, how is it going to be in 2050? And I'm particularly excited about that just by imagining it. So, how excited I will be when, in July, we're putting the first tone of that future of 2050 by bringing together 1 million young person across Europe to participate in the different activities, to compete for the best startup of the year to compete for the best mini company of the year. A new generation is born. That is Gen-E.

Roberta Cucchiaro (26:11): I love it. Looking forward to this.

Maalfrid Brath (26:14): I love it too. It's so great to hear you, Salvatore.

Dominika Gałusa (26:15): I was mesmerized.

Salvatore Nigro (26:24): We're really all gen here, I mean, and this is what this continent Europe needs. It definitely needs the generation that comes together.

Dominika Gałusa (26:33): That's true. So looking ahead, I have one question for each of you and, we'll start with you, Salvatore. So what is your vision for the future? What project would future Salvatore be working on in, let's say, June 2031?

Salvatore Nigro (26:48): Well, Salvatore today is speaking English. Salvatore has been living in Norway where Maalfrid is. Salvatore had a Swedish girlfriend where Josephine is over there, but Salvatore could do all of those things because there have been people in my life who believed that talent is universal, but opportunities are not. Because I come from a very humble family from the south of Italy, a very rural village. My mother was 16 years old and my father was 20 when I was born. They both were unemployed. So I grew up with this obsession of finding a job, because my parents, the only things we were talking about, in a region which had 54% of youth unemployment rate, was getting a job. I believed that talent was universal and opportunities are not and with the right opportunity to express my talent. So if I imagine it to jumping on 2031, my role is to make sure that every young European has an entrepreneurship and a work readiness experience to become a productive citizen.

Dominika Gałusa (28:05): That sounds inspiring and, Maalfrid, which are the skills of the future? And what should candidates focus on?

Maalfrid Brath (28:13): You know, first of all, I would say that, you know, the skills gap that you mentioned earlier, Salvatore, it's increasing. So first of all, we really need to close that skills gap and that's a big concern I have that the skills gaps have grown to big, so we have to close that. And I often say that a degree from the university is only the entrance ticket to the job market. I think the greatest employability skill that we can teach people is the ability and adaptability to learn new things. And what we at Manpower call learnability, I mean, I mentioned that earlier today as well in this podcast.

And learnability means that you have a hunger to keep learning, people won't fail fast, stretch to find creative solutions and keep growing and building new skills and to keep on developing and learning is the only guarantee to stay employable in the long run of things. So, so learnability and employability are two key words from my side and I like or relate to the skill revolution research reveals that even amidst this digital transformation, employers continue to say that soft skills are more hard to identify and difficult to develop in the workforce. And if young people can build soft skills like communication, collaboration, problem solving before they enter the labor market, they can boost their employability and resilience for long-term, I think.

Dominika Gałusa (29:44): So, what comes to mind from that report is that soft skills plus tech skills are human power.

Maalfrid Brath (29:53): That's right.

Dominika Gałusa (29:53): Yes, exactly. And I agree with that. So the last question goes to Josephine. Could you share one piece of advice to all aspiring entrepreneurs out there? What is the best way to learn something new?

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (30:05): Well, I would say, how cliche even this may sound, I would just say dare to try and dare to fail, especially since being so young, I feel it's the complete right time for you to try to start up a new business or try to realize your idea. And if nothing else, you always have the safety of maybe staying at home, living at home, you don't need a steady income to pay the bills, you know? So I feel like use the young age that you're in and try to realize your business ideas. And that I would say in itself is the ultimate learning experience. I mean, from my own perspective, these three past years as I've had Rawstraw, it's definitely been learning by doing, and those experiences that I've gained from that are invaluable and I don't think I would, you know, have received them anywhere else if I hadn't started my own business. So definitely try sooner than later. And if not, you probably learn tons of valuable experiences. Just do it, I would say.

Roberta Cucchiaro (31:07): Yeah, it's really, if you don't try you never know, right?

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (31:10): Exactly.

Roberta Cucchiaro (31:11): And I have another question that I really need to ask you this. So I saw on your website that your straws don't become soggy and I am yet to find a sustainable straw which does not disintegrate when, while you're drinking. So if it's not a business secret, how on earth have you managed to make your straw soggy free?

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (31:33): So funnily enough, they're naturally soggy free. I wish it was a business secret, but that's the natural raw material for you. So it doesn't get more unprocessed than that, really.

Roberta Cucchiaro (31:47): Okay. So it's the rye, the rye that you use that it's like that asset property.

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (31:51): Yes, exactly.

Roberta Cucchiaro (31:53): All right. That's good to know. And if someone wanted to buy Rawstraw where can they go?

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (31:58): So you can definitely check out rawstraw.se. We recently launched a little web shop for our customers and if not, otherwise check out our Instagram, @rawstrawse and make sure to take part of some deals there soon. So, yeah.

Roberta Cucchiaro (32:17): Cool. Cool, cool.

Dominika Gałusa (32:19): It's exciting. So it was great to have you all here. And before our last question, I just wanted to give a very short summary of, you know, what we talked about, but the most important thing is I like the words Salvatore used, is youthquake is coming. And I think that's a key word that we should all keep in mind when thinking about Junior Achievement Europe and how it's helping young people to kick off their careers. So, Roberta, over to you.

Roberta Cucchiaro (32:50): Yeah. Well, we have a last question. If you were stranded on a desert island and you could only have three things with you, what would you bring?

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (33:00): Oh, this is tough. I was not ready for this question. Honestly, I would probably bring one of my best friends, a knife and some sunscreen.

Roberta Cucchiaro (33:13): That's good. Useful.

Maalfrid Brath (33:17): Yeah. I can't come after, because if only three things I have actually would bring, is if, I would bring three people. That's my husband and my two sons. And I think we can manage to do the rest. Hopefully, there will be some other people.

Roberta Cucchiaro (33:32): Hopefully.

Salvatore Nigro (33:38): Well I, now, now Maalfrid put me in a very wrong position because if I don't say that I will bring my wife and my two kids, then they will probably put me in a desert island without them. I think a would definitely, if they are things and, and leaving the people aside that obviously this would be my choice to bring my people, aside. I will bring with me a pen, a paper, an imagination, because sometimes when you want to imagine really the future, you need to visualize it and the best way to visualize it is in putting on paper. Yes, we are all becoming digital, but we want to make one step back and hundreds steps forward.

Roberta Cucchiaro (34:29): Yeah, it's nice. And you will come back from the island stronger than ever with a lot of very good ideas.

Salvatore Nigro (34:35): Or I will die without, thirsty, because there will be no water, but I'll try to do that.

Roberta Cucchiaro (34:43): This has been a really wonderful conversation. I absolutely loved it. And it's really inspiring to see what Junior Achievement does as well as ManpowerGroup. I'm proud to hear all of this wonderful work. So thank you so much for joining us today on our ninth episode of the Transform Talent podcast. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did and to all our listeners, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review in your favorite podcast listening app. See you on the next episode and bye for now. Bye-bye.

Dominika Gałusa (35:15): Bye.

Salvatore Nigro (35:15): Bye.

Josephine Daly Tempelaar (35:15): Bye.

Maalfrid Brath (35:15): Bye.

Outro (35:17): The Transform Talent podcast, because we know the right talent transforms organizations and helps your business flourish. Talent Solutions, business and talent aligned.